Wednesday, August 06, 2014

Some facts on flight MH17

Finally, here are some facts. In spite of most of the “evidence” offered by the Ukrainians or the US being either a forgery or missing altogether, it's looking like the Ukrainian military shot down the plane in a coordinated attack. The black box recordings, the air traffic control records, the satellite surveillance photos—where are they? They have been hidden away. Why? Because they don't support the narrative that “it's all Putin's fault”?

16 comments:

Banastal said...

The latest "proof" is they found the volvo driver who drove the BUK back to Russia that fired the shot, who they say now fears for his life but offered the information... (it is beyond retarded) But I like how quiet everyone is about it nowadays... Well, my preference that they would talk as loud about the facts known, but I know that would be too unbiased and asking for too much. At least nobody is saying: Putin killed my son.

Wally said...

The Office of Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE) has been on site for a few days now searching for remains of the victims and personal items. To my knowledge they have not yet tried to determine the cause of how the plane was brought down.

1. I would hope that the OSCE has ballistics experts who can examine the damage and reach some conclusions of what kind of projectiles were used. A German pilot offered his theory that the plane was shot down 30mm armor piercing rounds, which explains to some extent the entrance and exit damage in the cockpit section.

2. I hope the OSCE has a chance to interview the air traffic controllers who were on duty at the time of the crash. Actually I hope they are alive and not being intimidated. Maybe they can confirm or deny the existence of "Carlos", aka @spainbuca, who was tweeting in near real time during the incident. His twitter account was closed shortly thereafter.

3. I hope the OSCE can retrieve an unedited tape of the conversations between MH17 and air traffic control.

4. I hope that Franz Timmerman (Dutch foreign minister) was not joking or putting on an act when he said they wanted to get to the bottom of this regardless of where it led. I understand the Netherlands has an interest in developing the East Ukrainian gas fields. I saw a picture online a few days ago showing Timmerman, Porshenko and the Australian minister Judy Abbott all smiles and grinning like they just won the Powerball lottery.

I could go on but I'll stop here and admit that I'm one thoroughly disgusted American - disgusted at the way the government has behaved and what's being done in the name of the American people - but then again, the government doesn't represent the interests of the American people.

k-dog said...

The book of Common Sense says that if Ukraine wanted the crash scene investigated; (as in we have nothing to hide), they would be avoiding heavy fighting which hinders access to the crash scene. Heavy fighting has dominated the area for weeks now.

But a new footnote in the book of CS also says that Dmtry Orlov recently pointed out that Ukrainians don't have a history of CS and don't do well at organized activity.

In which case it's more of the hot summer of '14' pot boil. But then it doesn't have to be one or the other and a mix of both is the real truth. A truth our minds which are forever classifying and polarizing experience into chunks of understandable stories has trouble grasping.

Ronald Langereis said...

Saw an interesting piece on ZeroHedge from SCG News, July 27, MH17 - What you're not being told.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-08-05/flight-mh17-what-youre-not-being-told
Supposing the plane crash and the Gaza invasion are connected, both on July 17, the former - pardon the pun - providing a media smoke screen for the latter, they could be part of a broader American-Israeli offensive plan.
1. punishing Putin for Syria, Crimea and his anti dollar trade deals.
2. giving Israel enough time to crush Hamas, a month instead of the usual week before the world rises in anger.
3. let Ukraine do the dirty work, if they want more weapons and financial aid.
4. put the eastern Ukrainian resistance to shame.
Hard to prove, of course, maybe never, but one gets suspicious if one reads outside the box.

k-dog said...

The PDF is compelling. Beyond any doubt the details to pin this thing down take time and effort to ferret out. Blaming it on Putin within hours betrayed disingenuity and shows an intent to deceive.

I hope the information in the PDF is evaluated, expanded, and combined with information about who had what and where on the ground that day. I hope for the truth of what happened that day is not lost before the corruption of time hides it forever.

badnewswade said...

Can you comment on the alleged tweets by rebels claiming responsibility for shooting down what they thought was a transport plane, subsequently deleted, as well as radio traffic amounting to the same thing?

Also the West are saying the rebels attempted to keep crash investigators from the site. Again, any comments on this? I am one confused bunny.

Rhisiart Gwilym said...

BadNewsWade - Does this look like unwillingness to let investigators onto the crash site? Count the number of times Borodai asks the investigators to come from Kiev to the site, and promises them that they will get everything that they need from the DPR authorities:

http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.co.uk/2014/07/alexander-borodai-19-jul-press.html

Note the date: two days after the crash.

Unknown said...

The tape where the rebel claimed to have a BUK was a hatchet job by reuters. The rebel in question immediately objected strenuously and demanded a retraction, which they refused. It was edited to mislead, and he states unequivocally that they have never had one in their control. So does Commander Strelkov.

Nathan said...

@Wally,

The Australia Foreign Affairs Minister is not Judy Abbott. It's Julie Bishop. Tony Abbott is our Prime Minister. I know, what's with the ecumenical titles downunder?

The Australian media this morning was broadcasting a "short term withdrawal" from the crash site by Netherlands, Australia et al, due to it being "unsafe". So much for "whatever it takes." Coverup is in full swing.

Wally said...

@Nathan

You are correct. I made a mistake. Thanks.

In any event, here is a link to the image that I was referring to:


http://www.kyivpost.com/opinion/op-ed/petro-poroshenko-ukraine-needs-the-us-to-respond-to-russia-358023.html

Andrei Serbanica said...

Apparently, the Malaysians now believe that the airliner was most likely shot down by an air-to-air missile coupled with 30mm cannon fire:
http://en.ria.ru/military_news/20140806/191783761/MH17-Brought-Down-by-Air-to-Air-Missile-Finished-Off-by-30-mm.html

If this is confirmed, it would explain why it was being chased by the Su-25 which, so far, nobody had any good idea why it was there and what it was doing.
American false flags have always been lame but this one tops the list.

Nigwil said...

Its is an interesting and persuasive analysis.

It appears, tho, that the plane did a U-turn from its last reported position of
48.0403, 38.7728
Source:
http://21stcenturywire.com/2014/07/25/mh17-verdict-real-evidence-points-to-us-kiev-cover-up-of-failed-false-flag-attack/

to come to earth in a 5km swathe west of 48.1333, 38.6333 (= the 48d07'58.9"N, 38d38'09.6"E)

That is a back-track of about 15km from its most easterly last reported position.

So if hit from Sakhtars'k (the battery was observed at 47°58'59.29"N 38°27'2.07"E) then the interception would have been either from the starboard (right side)and then the aircraft did a turn back towards the west, or from the port side (left) after the plane had turned towards the west.

The truth is coming out, but I don't think the analysis is complete yet.

Nigwil said...

The ground track of the crash field indicates that the aircraft was on a heading of about 90 degrees when it broke up.

At its reported cruise speed of 252 metres per second (490 knots) and altitude of 10,000 metres (33,000') ballistic debris would take 45 seconds to fall to ground, and in that time the heaviest/lowest drag items could travel as much as 11.4 kilometres horizontally from the point of breakup before hitting the ground.

Lighter items with higher drag would fall earlier in the track, and the very lightest and high drag items would fall almost straight down from the point of breakup.

So we have heavy engine bits in Harbove and bodies falling in Rozsypne 5km west of the engines. We could then expect to find really light debris like in-flight magazines and loose clothing as much as 5 km further west of Rozsypne towards the area just north of Stizhkivs'ke (around 48d07'50"N, 38d28'25"). Finding such items there would confirm the location of the actual break up point of the aircraft.

A minor problem with a breakup over Stizhkivs'ke is that that location is south of the official recorded track of the aircraft, and the heading at the time of breakup is 28 degrees left of the 'official' track.

The debris field is the only 'truthful' data source we have (everything else including position reports can be messed with), and what this field tells us from basic speed and distance calculations is that the last two or three positions 'reported' by the aircraft don't make sense.
(refer to table of locations in

http://21stcenturywire.com/2014/07/25/mh17-verdict-real-evidence-points-to-us-kiev-cover-up-of-failed-false-flag-attack/

and plot them on GoogleEarth and compare with the crash site at 48.1333N, 38.6333E)

Neither does the Russian Air Traffic Control report make sense either. That depicts the aircraft suddenly loosing speed, as if its engines had been disabled. Now many commercial jets have lost power but they maintain control and speed by diving slightly. This jet apparently kept in almost level flight as the speed washed off very quickly to its final 202 km/h over several minutes, while it executed a slow turn to the left ending up heading at about 30 degrees (looking at the track on the video). At 202 km/h it would have stalled and fallen lie a brick into a debris field not much bigger than the aircraft. From stall it would be very difficult to get the aircraft flying at a heading, altitude and speed needed to create a five to ten km long debris field. So the debris field from that track and speed is incompatible with the actual story the debris field tells.

Bodies from the wreckage have been positively identified, and so this is probably MH17. (not MH370 or some bogus smoking hole in a Pennsylvanian field). But the story the crash field tells us does not fit with either the plan's reported transponder locations and speeds or the Russian ATC images, and the two track data streams are not compatible - the aircraft's reported positions show no significant change in speed or heading while the ATC data shows sustained speed loss and a turn.

So, are these tracks from DIFFERENT planes, and are neither of these tracks relating to the aircraft that crashed at and west of Harbove.

Sherlock Holmes is said to have observed '.. that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth'

All very strange!

patriciaormsby said...

@Andrei

This is the second time I've seen the Malaysian New Strait Times article referenced. An hour or so ago, I read about it in an Op Ed News article. There was no link given, and when I accessed the home page, I could find no sign of the article. It would be significant, because Malaysia is a neutral country. If I send references to Russian-related sites or alternative news, no one will take me seriously.
I fear they have taken the article down, because all I can find now is a denial that that MH17 could have been shot down and accusations of social media rumors.
Has anyone saved a copy of the original New Strait Times article?

michigan native said...

http://www.nst.com.my/node/20925 Malaysia is reportedly preparing to press charges....against the neo Nazi regime in Kiev.

Imagine how all the Canadian, European, and other NATO dupes will feel when and if they realize that their leaders were supplying and aiding terrorists like these scumbags?

People here in the US are noticing the silence of Obama, Kerry, Clinton, and other walking talking rectal sphincters from the west.http://rt.com/usa/179284-ron-paul-mh17-ukraine/

patriciaormsby said...

@ michigan native
Thank you for the links! I've saved the New Strait Times article in case it disappears.
I've long admired Dr. Paul, but have heard nothing but derision about him recently among bloggers. The silence of Obama et al. would be a good sign, but I am pessimistic. As Dmitry has pointed out, TPTB need a war, and a huge one, to get everyone focusing on a foreign enemy that can be blamed for everyone's misery, masking their real complicity in the unfolding economic disaster. I expect a new false flag attempt with patsies or other semi-solid "evidence" they can trundle out.

Japan, meanwhile, will not counter US propaganda, except maybe three months from now, by NHK, in the dead of night, if we are lucky. Japan has a history of siding with the loudest bully.