Friday, March 09, 2012

C-Realm: Theater of the Mind

In this 300th C-Realm Podcast episode, KMO welcomes Dmitry Orlov back to the program to check in on the collapse narrative and to compare the actual unfolding of events with Dmitry’s perspective of five years ago.

"...I did an episode a few months back with—Guy McPherson was on, and Kurt Cobb, and Henry Warwick. And Henry was saying that it's just really irresponsible to talk about collapse to audiences who don't understand the very specific meaning of the word you have in mind, because generally when people hear "collapse," they think 'Mad Max Scenario', when in fact a collapse in the Joseph Tainter sense can be advantageous, you know, in fact it could be that we are due for some financial, political and commercial collapse, but social and cultural collapse are things you would want to avoid at all costs."

"Well, yes, it's not all one thing. The criticism that I use this word, well, you know, let them propose a different word. I haven't exactly redefined what I'm talking about, I'm just adding detail. So I don't know if that's entirely valid."


forrest said...

Hey, where are you in this?

Couple things: Kwan Yin's sex change, according to a fairly convincing book (_The Jesus Sutras_) is the result of very early Christian influence. ie, Long before The Church was sending missionaries, there were Eastern Christians, not affiliated with the Roman Empire, traveling a lively trade route to/from China through areas now blighted by Civilization... and Mary was an iconic figure in their worship. Around this time you start seeing female Kwan Yins, and much of the time these are carrying babies.

The peculiar structure of Occupy meetings... was not exactly plotted in advance by some Occupy Central Command-- but seems to be the result of earlier training by Quaker activists, who have no doubt been as delighted as I am to see the movement taking this form. The form, of course, really depends on people coming to recognize that it's going to take a spiritual revolution to get us all over these bumpy bits... Stephen Gaskin: "Politics, so far, if used for settling any questions heavier than where to put the sidewalks, can't make it. And is not a heavy enough vehicle for the agreement needed to keep mankind together." But political matters keep needing to be settled-- and so we need spiritual practices to make that work. As in Gaskin's description of "spirit" as "the only thing heavy enough to make a monkey change his mind."

hapibeli said...

I enjoyed the podcast at C-Realm. The "slow shipping" was very interesting as I've had a friend speak to the relatively inexpensive aspects of container shipping. He believes it will be sustained over a long time. My arguments regarding peak energy don't go very far with him. The podcast with your and KMO's conversation highlighted my current understanding of most people's ability to accept the coming transformation of our world from cheap and easily gained to expensive and often hard to come by energy.
Those who want to listen will, those who don't will have to adjust that much more quickly as the need arises.
Thanks Dimitri.
BTW, I learned of you 3 years ago when I begin reading John M Greer's blog and books.

KMO said...

Sorry for the confusion, Forrest. The video at the top of the page is
a decoy. The podcast with Dmitry is audio-only. You'll find links for
streaming or downloading it below the video.

The referenced conversation with Guy McPherson, Kurt Cobb, and Henry
Warwick can be found in C-Realm episode 285: The Rhetoric of Doom.

Funny you should mention Stephen Gaskin. He's my neighbor at the
moment, though I'll be moving from the Farm to NYC at the end of this

kevin said...

I'd hesitate to move to parts of NYC. FerFAL (at recommends avoiding rural retreats and areas with high population density. Gated communities are a good place to witness the collapse.

2 million visits to ClubOrlov is nothing to sneeze at. If nothing else, you've given me a lot of good info and a little peace of mind. Most people don't want to deal with too much reality. Ignorance is bliss. Please continue to help those who want to be helped, and don't worry about the rest.

Unknown said...

I'd like to see Dmitry enjoy a discussion with Douglas Lain (Diet Soap Podcast) who also does a great job asking the important questions (philosophical) in regards to living in Late Stage Capitalism.

I'd love to see the interaction of Lain's often surreal take on things and Dmitry's freakishly practical and refreshing take on living in a world so dominated by imaginary living.

KMO said...

Dmitry was the guest on episode 50 of the Diet Soap podcast.

Dmitry Orlov said...

Kunstler was on that podcast before me, and wrote something about it to me that I won't quote because there may be women and children present, and also to keep the paint from falling off the walls. To which I responded: "Yes, quite right. At one pont I thought of using the word "stupid" exclusively for the rest of the interview, but then thought that would be a bit stupid."

RanDomino said...

forrest: "The peculiar structure of Occupy meetings... was not exactly plotted in advance by some Occupy Central Command-- but seems to be the result of earlier training by Quaker activists"

Actually, Consensus comes directly from Anarchists, who in turn received it from Quakers during the anti-nuclear campaigns of the 1970s.

BrandFeelsGood said...

You've helped me see the truth about peak oil, three towers, and man made global warming. I thank you and all other people of science.


To carry a lie is a heavy burden, the truth is initially irritating but eventually it becomes comforting.

Jeff said...

I used to think that it was a bad thing that the lights were going to go out. When I read things like this, I see the positive side:

Humans just shouldn't have much power when we lack so much wisdom.

Anonymous said...

Just wanted to share a few articles with the list, terrifying stuff I'm afraid....

escapefromwisconsin said...

Had I known it was going to posted here, I would have transcribed the part of the interview where you point out that it is impossible to secure all the computer systems - our networks are now so vast and complex that there is not enough human intelligence to secure them. the goofy words you have to type in when you submit a comment ought to give you some idea of what we're up against. That's especially sobering given all the movements afoot to elimnate hard currency and put all of our money into the "virtual" realm of computer accounts. Money will not only be divorced from anything real, but also from any productive activity. Who says there's no progress - now you will be able to rob banks from the comfort and convenience of your own home!

Perhaps we can use barter currencies instead. Chalk up another accurate prediction: they are already forming on the streets of America. Except instead of cigaretes and Vodka, we have - and I swear I am not making this up - Tide laundry detergent:

Tide is the new currency on the criminal underground, can be exchanged for meth (BoingBoing)

The cognoscenti have known for some time that the age of antibiotics is coming to an end. Warnings have been issued for years, and have of course been ignored. We had more important things to do like invent Facebook and Twitter. The rate of new antibiotic discovery has peaked as well. If that doesn't scare you enough, there's also the Brown Recluse Spider, coming to a town near you thanks to global warming! A Kunstler prediction coming true as well.

According to Gorbachev, the Chernobyl Nuclear Accident Caused the Collapse of the USSR.

And I thought this exchange was interesting:

“Listen to me, I’m a chief in the New York City Police Department, and you’re a police officer,” the chief said. “So this is what’s going to happen, my friend. You’ve disobeyed an order. And the way you’re acting is not right.”

“Chief, if you were woken up in your house ——” Officer Schoolcraft began.

“Stop right there, son,” the chief said.

“—— how would you behave?” Officer Schoolcraft continued.

“Son, I’m doing the talking right now, not you,” the chief said.

“In my apartment,” Officer Schoolcraft said.

“In your apartment,” Chief Marino said. “You are going ——”

“Is this Russia?” Officer Schoolcraft said.

Whistleblower Police Office Had Backup - Secret Recordings (New York Times)