Sunday, November 07, 2010

Happy November Seventh

Will people still celebrate the Fourth of July once the United States of America has ceased to exist? Let's hope they do, for memory's sake.

Power to the Councils! Peace to the Nations! Land to the Farmers! Happy Revolution Day, everyone!




20 comments:

John Andersen said...

Yes, the 4th of July is a celebration of grassroots change, and no matter what political structure exists, that idea should never die.

Bob said...

Um, a bunch of rich white slave-owners (mostly) declare a revolution for freedom of "the People" (read propertied white males) and that's "grassroots change"? Ah, that explains the recent election.

The Revolution is dead! Long live the Revolution!

M said...

'No' is the correct answer. The 4th of July commemorates genocide, slavery, and ecocide - a revolution from above by rich white men who didn't want to pay their taxes and loathed democracy.

Keeping such values alive after collapse is like funding the zombie banks lurching around these days.

Kathy said...

Seems like Canada did just fine without fighting a war with England. How many lives lost for a future so little different from that of our neighbor to the north?

H said...

Well lefty America bashing is always fun, but we can demolish every culture and civilization in history quite easily if we look at it through the lens of some imaginary egalitarian utopia that has never existed (and never will).

Putting that aside, in the context of the Western world of 1776, the United Sates was clearly a revolutionary idea. The founding fathers may have been those dreaded propertied white males (which I’m guessing describes about 90% of this blog’s readers), but they were also the architects of an unprecedented experiment in human freedom. The founding idea of the USA, a state based on constitutional rights and separation of church and state, rather than tribal conquest, theocracy and feudal privilege, remains the most revolutionary political idea in history.

What people don’t seem to appreciate these days is the fact that the true founders of the USA were highly progressive, spiritually developed men of the Enlightenment. Most were members of secret societies whose ultimate goal, as taught by all the esoteric schools going back to the Greeks, was the perfection of man. The entire "New World Order", which is a continuation of this project and a program for global utopia that puts Marxist-Leninism to shame, could never have been possible without the United States as a test case. (Yes, I am a proponent of global civilization, as opposed to Dark Ages II, which is effectively was a "post peak" world is).

So when people so glibly bash the USA all I can say is, if you understood the real vision behind the founding of the USA, as opposed to that of the sorry clowns in D.C. today or the revisionists of the Left and Right, you would be happy to celebrate the 4th of July and would not wish for America’s demise.

RanDomino said...

The USA was a great idea 200 years ago. We should all be 'post-American,' not 'anti-American'.

Bob said...

My point was simple: a revolution of propertied white males, by propertied white males, for propertied white males is hardly an example of “grassroots change,” any more than is a Tea party backed and funded by the Koch brothers and Dick Armory’s FreedomWorks. The “People” were a good deal more ambivalent than their masters (New York, for example, was throughout the Revolution mostly Royalist), and like “the People” through the ages, most waited to see which way the wind was gonna blow: after all, one cannot eat the pretty words these “highly progressive, spiritually developed men of the Enlightenment” appropriated from earlier, greater thinkers to justify their “Revolution.”

I submit that to the people of Afghanistan (to pick just one of many, many examples—too many, really) that the “continuation of this project and a program for global utopia that puts Marxist-Leninism to shame” by the United States looks no different than it did when it was the Marxist-Leninist empire inflicting it upon them (for their own good, of course).

H? Is that H for Hagiography?

xbornstubbornx said...

"The People" definitely will keep celebrating 4th of July years ahead in whatever will be left of USA, but in the same manner post-Soviets in the ex-RSFSR territory celebrate all the dates associated with an old regime. I am more than sure about that. The newest generation shall turn apathetic to the holy image of the Founding Fathers while the mindset of the elders wouldn't change for the rest of their lives. These people will still be throwing their parties at the backyards (or whatever would be instead of them), waving their stars and stripes at the every corner and citing the Constitution, but in the post-Soviet fashion they will start turning senile with age. That would make them a laughing stock of the younger generations and nobody would take them seriously, thus in 2-3 decades that mindset would wither away for good. There is no Nostradamus or grandma Vanga involved, neither this is another doomer's fantasies, it's just the way people part ways with an old regimes.
There will always be admirers of Reagan or FDR or whoever was in the office, but those won't be the eyewitnesses of the Good Old US of A, they will learn about it from the books, grandfather's memories and the rumors. Nota bene: Russia never abandoned celebrating 7th of November, but less and less people are interested or even aware of what it is about.
There's another amusing similarity I am observing right now: yet in the 80's despite the turmoil even most of the youngsters in USSR were hardcore communists; since 1991 and up to now people in their 20-40's have been grumbling in "it's time to get the fuck out of this fucking country" manner. Not all of them, but at least a half, including all the liberal city people. This is exactly what many American youths are already doing - calling their country names and looking for moving elsewhere, although in the 90's or even mid-00's it would be unthinkable.
Today Russian web users have a political division to ultra-right wing "potsreots" (from Yiddish "pots" (a dick) and a "patriot") and not-so-right wing "liberasts" (from "pederast", homosexualist, and liberal). First are typically imperialist, racist and oppose any kind of migration, in or out, the latter are admirers of free-market capitalism and Western democracies. They are different from what we have in the US today, but in the future some North Americans might as well adapt similar ideas if there will be any superpower left to look up to. But predicting these kinds of things is up to Nostradamuses and various nutjobs.

Michael Dawson said...

Despite its social basis, there are a few things worth saving about July 4. Not least being its association with the Declaration of Independence and its truly revolutionary announcement about human equality.

As to November 7, one would think that, again despite the flaws, exiting unjust wars, empowering workers, and punishing aristocratic claimants, despite the purported "costs," might sound interesting to folks in today's USA.

Jeff said...

I will celebrate July 4th as long as I live. Those who won't probably don't celebrate it now and I hope my sparklers and flag irritate them.

irkone said...

The Americas were populated before this "unprecedented experiment in human freedom" murdered its inhabitants, remember...? Oh, wait, that's right, they were savages!

I'm already at the point where I don't stand up for the Star Spangled Banner. Instead, I cringe. Sit down next time that institutionally engraved routine occurs and observe others. One realizes just how hollow, absurd, and offensive such praise is for the symbol of full-speed-ahead capitalistic ecocide and how comfortable it is to be sitting down expressing the "real vision behind the founding of the US" known as "fuck you" -- the attitude of revolution.

zhu said...

Some people still celebrate the Birthday of Rome (21 April or 7 days after the Ides of Aprilis),Nowruz, etc. Major holidays rarely die out.

CapnRick said...

Those who don't feel proud of the USA and have NO idea what the rest of the world is like, this Argentina resident would love to hear your thoughts of Brasil as reflected by this article from an important study done by a brazilian resident of Australia.

I celebrate the 4th of July and all it represents no matter where I am in the world.

Whoever told you to be ashamed of the USA seriously did you a disfavor.

M said...

As the august kollapsnik has pointed out elsewhere, the scary parts of American collapse revolve around basic behaviors: can you cooperate with others who disagree, behave differently, or have different goals?

The mild froth here when considering the end of July 4th doesn't inspire confidence. What happens when we can no longer import cheap American flags from across the Pacific, or you have to choose between said flag, similarly-imported fireworks, or medicine so your loved ones don't die?

If more Americans could comprehend these choices, or understand that torture is a bad idea, or that we trashed habeas corpus after almost 800 years, then I'd be OK with July 4th at least every other year.

CapnRick said...

http://www.brazzil.com/articles/188-february-2008/10042.html

I apologise that the url did not copy properly for the Brazil article.

wuyi said...

hmmm, does anyone wonder what the native peoples think about our brave new experiment in equality? will we ever see it for what it was and is...freedom for a few, genocide for countless and slavery for the rest?

gylangirl said...

4th of July has become more of a 'hooray for our team' day than celebration of the founding principles. Most Americans are ignorant of the founding principles and cannot apply them to daily situations or modern day controversies.

The flag will be usurped by future demogogues into a sign of support for their agenda. [As per usual.]

Larkin said...

Sometime ago, I saw a video of a high school class reciting the pledge of allegiance to the flag. I think the video was taken on the sly and I wish I could locate it. In any event the teacher who seem much like a phys-ed coach approached one boy who was defiant in not participating in the pledge. He was silent with his arms at his side. The angry teacher approached him, manhandled him trying to force the boy's arm into the pledging position. The boy went limp but the teacher continued to try to force him.

I can see how someone might disagree with the boy's point of view and manner of protest but if this is supposed to be a free country, what is the point of trying to force him?

Kevin said...

I've always felt that way about the Pledge. It's an oath of loyalty exacted from kids who often don't even know what the word "allegiance" means (I didn't at age nine, when I was first induced to recite the Pledge). Furthermore it's unconstitutional, as it includes a reference to "God," whereas the Constitution explicitly states that Congress shall pass no law respecting religion. The Pledge of Allegiance was rammed through during the 1950s and has no legitimate association with the Fourth of July, the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, or the Declaration of Independence. Moreover that kind of compulsory group behavior is a violation of the spirit of all those things, in my opinion. So I'm against it.

Thor RavenHammer, Friend of the Gods said...

Actually the Natives already had freedom and equality until the European invaders took it away from them.